BRIAN KENNY: Welcome to Chilly Name, the podcast the place we dive deep into the tales behind groundbreaking Harvard Enterprise College case research.
As organizations world wide wrestle with questions on distant work, hybrid schedules, and return to workplace mandates, one tech firm has charted its personal daring path. Atlassian, the enterprise software program agency behind instruments like Jira, Trello, and Confluence, made a one-way door resolution in 2020 to completely embrace distributed work. However what does it take to make that mannequin succeed at scale? At this time’s case dives deep into how Atlassian constructed a data-driven method to flexibility, created new norms round conferences and collaboration, and designed bodily areas and digital techniques for a radically reimagined office. We’ll discover how Atlassian isn’t just managing distributed work however really turning it right into a strategic differentiator with a research-backed playbook that will form how corporations worldwide rethink the way forward for work.
At this time on Chilly Name, we welcome Professor Ashley Whillans to debate the case “Designing the Way forward for Work: Atlassian’s Distributed Work Practices.” I’m your host Brian Kenny, and also you’re listening to Chilly Name on the HBR podcast community. Professor Whillans’ analysis seeks to grasp the hyperlinks between time, cash, and happiness. She is the writer of Time Sensible: How you can Reclaim Your Time and Reside a Happier Life, and she or he is a repeat buyer right here on Chilly Name. Welcome again, Ashley.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: Thanks a lot for having me.
BRIAN KENNY: It’s nice to have you ever within the studio. That is such a related and well timed case as a result of right here, there, and all over the place we’re speaking about distant work and hybrid work and the way will we try this? And will we try this? And a few corporations are saying, Come again to work extra, and a few are saying, Come again much less. So, I assumed this was actually attention-grabbing. It raises a variety of the problems. And admittedly, a few of the questions that Atlassian is grappling with are the exact same ones that we’re grappling with right here at Harvard Enterprise College, and I’m certain our listeners can relate. So, thanks for writing it. Thanks for being right here to speak about it.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: In fact.
BRIAN KENNY: I’m going to start out you off by asking what drew you to Atlassian as a topic for the case? And the way does it relate to the sorts of issues that you concentrate on and the analysis questions that you just pursue? After which what’s your chilly name to start out the dialogue?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: Yeah, so I’ve been doing a variety of work as a time administration researcher on hybrid and distributed work as a result of clearly there’s trade-offs related to distant work, not as a lot in-person connection, however you get a variety of private flexibility. And corporations are actually grappling with whether or not and how you can formalize insurance policies and practices.
So Atlassian is, I feel, an excessive instance that we will be taught from the place they make this one-way door resolution, We’re by no means going to drive you again into the workplace, as the way in which we take into consideration fixing the collaborative challenges that come up in information work. Not simply hybrid work and distant work, however information work is tough. There’s lots of people throughout time zones. Nearly all of our groups are distributed. And Atlassian says, Let’s cease speaking in regards to the workplace. Why are we so hung up on this query of the workplace? We’re focusing our consideration within the mistaken place. We must be specializing in the day by day practices of how we collaborate in an intense information work atmosphere and let’s put our brains collectively, our design hat on and run rigorous research and take a data-driven method to determine how you can make information work higher.
BRIAN KENNY: So, how do you begin the dialog off?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: I say, “In the event you have been a latest graduate with a number of presents as a challenge supervisor at a tech firm, would you select Atlassian’s absolutely distributed mannequin or one other competitor’s hybrid mannequin? And why?” And this chilly name instantly surfaces the strain between having all of this flexibility about the place to work and the crew collaboration aspect that each group should navigate. So, in case you have fully distant and distributed groups, otherwise you by no means have to return into the workplace, it’s important to suppose extra fastidiously about once you’re going to get collectively and why. So, it calls for this intentionality, this construction about how you can work as a result of there’s no construction round the place to work. And a few college students are actually enthusiastic about by no means being instructed what to do or the place to work. And a few staff scratch their head and suppose, Nicely, if I by no means should be within the workplace and my colleagues by no means should be within the workplace, how am I going to get the data I want? Am I going to get the fitting mentorship? How am I going to learn to do my job? In order that chilly name raises a variety of the views that we hear about distributed work on the whole.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah. And it would assist our listeners to grasp a bit of bit in regards to the scale and scope of Atlassian. Are you able to describe the agency a bit of bit?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: Atlassian is a big software program firm, and so they have about 12,000 staff throughout 12 workplaces, so extremely distributed. And their headquarters is in Australia. So, what’s attention-grabbing in regards to the firm, they develop software program for predominantly engineers, so permitting them to arrange their code and share tickets with one another about what must get accomplished. However they’re beginning to slowly take a wider view on being collaboration software program for all information staff all over the place. So, after all, distributed work can be a part of their go-to-market technique. In the event that they’re going to maneuver from promoting software program tech that’s actually extremely specialised to being a collaboration software program firm for each information employee worldwide, we higher decide to doing distributed work after which work out the way it works and how you can make our merchandise make that have of distributed work higher.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah, and curiously, so the stakeholder viewers that they’ve handled principally are engineers, as you mentioned. And engineering is completed in isolation a variety of the time the place individuals are centered very intensely on doing one factor, however they do have to get collectively and brainstorm and use that point to give you concepts collectively, so it’s a extremely attention-grabbing dynamic. How did the one-way door coverage differentiate them from different individuals of their area?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: The co-CEOs of Atlassian, Scott Farquhar and Mike Cannon-Brookes, throughout COVID mentioned, It is a second. This is a chance for us to develop. We wish to develop our enterprise. We wish to hold growing the dimensions of our enterprise. And this compelled experiment in working remotely throughout COVID goes to offer us with a chance to rent the very best expertise from wherever on the earth. They form of seemed on the market and so they mentioned, I wager you all these corporations that we compete towards, they’re going to drive staff again to the workplace in some unspecified time in the future. And we’re not going to do this, we’re not going to flip-flop as a result of if we flip-flop, we’re by no means going to have the ability to make investments the time, consideration, and assets that we have to make distributed work work. And that issues to us personally, due to their perception that pleased staff are extra productive and that distant work is one thing that allows individuals to spend time extra with their family and friends, which is essential for getting high-quality work and serving to their staff reside high-quality lives.
But additionally very pragmatically for his or her enterprise, they may get higher software program engineers and expertise, and so they may additionally go to the market in a broader method. And they should pilot these merchandise themselves, in order that they want to determine how you can be the collaboration software program that removes the necessity to go to the workplace, that makes the workplace a luxurious. So, they make this one-way door resolution throughout COVID, after an extended stroll on the seashore, kind of excited about in Sydney, exterior of Sydney…
BRIAN KENNY: We have been all strolling. All people was strolling on the seashore throughout COVID.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: Yeah, having this lengthy chat. Nicely, precisely as a result of, nicely, Australia too had very strict lockdown insurance policies. So, it was most likely an extended stroll on a seashore speaking to one another over the telephone in Australia throughout that point, pondering that, Let’s do one thing totally different. Let’s make this one-way door resolution, by no means return, commit 100% that we’ll by no means drive one other worker to return again to an workplace. We’ll nonetheless have workplaces, however they are going to be for intentional use, however not a requirement.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah. And COVID, if we take a look at silver linings and alternatives by no means going to waste, COVID compelled a variety of organizations to take care of this and with issues that they’d by no means needed to take care of earlier than. Within the training area, we wound up going surfing, we found out how to do this rapidly. The good thing about that for us was that we now nonetheless use that expertise, however we use it in numerous methods. So Atlassian is onto one thing right here as they’re excited about this one-way door coverage, however work doesn’t simply occur all by itself. Are you able to inform us a bit of bit about their system of labor philosophy at Atlassian?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: Their system of labor philosophy has three pillars. The primary is unleashing information. So, they acknowledge that in distributed environments, data will get buried in emails and chat threads. So, they made their instrument Confluence their central nervous system the place each assembly begins with a web page that will get uploaded on the shared system, creating everlasting searchable information for each worker within the group. Their second system of labor philosophy is aligning work to targets. So, they make sure that everybody understands not simply what to do however why. The third is planning and monitoring work. So, they supply construction for execution, and the important thing perception is that they separate the place work occurs from how work occurs. So, they offer whole location flexibility however present a variety of construction over day by day work practices, by way of page-led conferences, calendar redesign experiments, clear KPIs, and particular collaboration home windows. So once more, as I like to show this kind of alongside a spectrum, what are we being versatile about? They’re location agnostic, and they’re work observe structured. They’re extremely versatile on the place individuals work and really structured about how work will get accomplished day by day and what the influence of that work is on the outcomes that matter for them.
BRIAN KENNY: Proper. I get that. We haven’t talked in regards to the protagonist, Annie Dean, and she or he leads the Crew Wherever, which, is that just like the identify of her division crew?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: Yeah, I feel it has a brand new identify now, however they at all times have new names on a regular basis. She acquired tasked with making an attempt to determine how you can operationalize this one-way door resolution.
BRIAN KENNY: So how did she method that? How do you even start to method that?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: So, she could be very attention-grabbing. She has an attention-grabbing profession. She did a startup about versatile work method earlier than it was in vogue in 2010, and she or he wrote a report predicting that versatile fashions of labor wouldn’t solely assist with retention and work-life steadiness, scale back stress, however would additionally assist in the case of a pandemic. So, she was a type of nice thinkers like Invoice Gates already predicting this pandemic in 2010.
BRIAN KENNY: That’s form of wild. I learn that within the case, and I couldn’t imagine that she really used that as a possible state of affairs.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: Sure, she could be very forward-looking. Then she went and labored at a consulting agency throughout change administration after she bought her startup, and that was through the interval of COVID. So, she was consulting all of her shoppers about how you can handle this digital transformation, and she or he acquired tapped on the shoulder at Atlassian because the co-CEOs have been making an attempt to determine, Okay, we simply made this one-way door resolution, and we all know what it means, we all know what we wish, we’re by no means going to drive individuals to work in an workplace, however we don’t know what the opposite components of it ought to appear to be.
She got here in and she or he thought like a system designer. So, I feel a variety of the conversations about hybrid work have been about insurance policies. What number of days are we going to return into the workplace? They haven’t been at that system degree. So, she introduced collectively finance, she introduced collectively—she’s a lawyer—so she introduced collectively the authorized crew. She introduced collectively actual property as a result of a variety of the conversations about bringing individuals again to the workplace are as a result of their CEOs and boards are frightened that their workplace area goes unused. And she or he introduced collectively all of those teams, technique teams, product teams, to suppose collectively about how you can create a holistic answer that works for the enterprise and that doesn’t value some huge cash however really creates efficiencies.
BRIAN KENNY: You talked in regards to the techniques that they require individuals to work in. I completely perceive why that is smart. One of many issues that I feel a variety of workplaces grapple with now could be productiveness: Are we extra productive now that we’ve acquired individuals working remotely? And I feel leaders have a tough time form of wrapping their mind round, How can we be as productive as we was if we’re not all right here? So how did Atlassian take into consideration that? How did they measure whether or not or not individuals have been as productive as they have been?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: And I feel that that is actually key. So, they transcend conventional metrics like workplace attendance or self-reported productiveness. They develop novel metrics like value per go to for actual property. So, they take whole prices and divide it by precise visits to guage workplace effectivity. And this really led to sure flooring on sure workplaces getting closed if capability wasn’t being met. They usually do that in a variable method like month over month, week over week. So that’s much less on the productiveness facet, however extra on the price facet of providing this distributed mannequin. So, they monitor tidal flows to grasp attendance patterns fairly than static head counts.
However extra to your query, they measure innovation by way of their Shippit hackathon knowledge the place lots of of friends fee initiatives. So, they construct community fashions that analyze digital interactions by way of Jira, Confluence and Slack alongside in-person connections. And this permits them to see that distant groups are simply as productive as those who meet within the workplace. So, they’re operating these experiments, doing these community fashions, utilizing their very own innovation tournaments internally as knowledge. And they also’ve employed a bunch of PhDs, and so they’re pondering actually creatively about productiveness metrics going past the usual HR instrument equipment of those engagement surveys that exit each quarter. And so one among their researchers, Molly, who I quote within the case, says, “Corporations usually conflate workplace attendance with collaboration, and people are fully totally different metrics.” They usually don’t deal with these as one and the identical. They attempt to get away and really differentially monitor collaboration versus simply merely being in an workplace.
BRIAN KENNY: And that every one sounds a bit of bit much less onerous possibly than, I’ve to fill out a productiveness worksheet each week that speaks to how a lot I did.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: Yeah, they’re positively not doing that. They’re positively utilizing behavioral knowledge the place they will as a result of they don’t wish to burden their very busy and centered engineers and product leads with filling out surveys. So, they take a look at badge knowledge, and so they don’t do it in a punitive method as a result of once more, they don’t care if individuals are within the workplace. They care in the event that they’re creating output.
BRIAN KENNY: Early in my profession I had a supervisor who would actually stroll to the window and look out of the parking zone to see what number of automobiles have been nonetheless there. And that was one-way that he measured whether or not, and so only a fully misguided mind-set about productiveness. However I feel a variety of that mentality nonetheless exists at some degree.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: Yeah, there’s a complete literature that we generally draw on, the perfect employee, which is this concept that we use bodily proximity and whether or not somebody is within the workplace as a tough proxy for whether or not that individual is dedicated.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah. You talked about actual property earlier. I’d love to have a look at that as a result of that definitely has grow to be an enormous problem in a variety of huge cities the place actual property that was crammed with staff is now vacant a variety of the time, and individuals are excited about, How will we repurpose that? And so Atlassian, in some methods with their one-way door coverage is hopefully assuaging themselves of getting to take care of all of the problems of renting and leasing properties. I imply, how did they take care of that?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: So, that is an ongoing work in progress as a result of they go away it as much as staff to resolve whether or not to return in. They began to place formal insurance policies into place primarily based on some intentional crew gathering knowledge. So intentional crew gatherings are precisely what that seems like the place you deliver your direct crew collectively as soon as each couple of months to hash issues out on a whiteboard. They usually discover that these intentional crew gatherings improve crew connection by 27% and are more practical than merely coming to the workplace extra usually. Once more, that workplace presence isn’t synonymous with collaboration, and they also’ve put these insurance policies into place. So now each crew has to get collectively, primarily based on the info that they collected, each three to 5 months as a compulsory observe. So, they nonetheless want the workplace. And they also’re at all times making an attempt to determine, and that’s why they use these very delicate metrics, these tidal stream metrics.
So, in case you have low tide, that’s low attendance. If in case you have excessive tide, that’s the most individuals which might be ever going to be within the workplace. They usually do their workplace planning round low tide and excessive tide, each common customers, so people who find themselves utilizing that as their house workplace in addition to people who find themselves touring. In the event you consider the Sydney workplace, lots of people journey to the Sydney headquarters to journey and be with the worldwide crew that they won’t see fairly often. And once more, staff don’t should go to the workplace regularly. So, they’re continually monitoring this area and the way it’s getting used and the way individuals are feeling in regards to the area.
They deal with workplaces as a service, and so they have a hospitality mindset. So, Gina Creegan’s crew at Atlassian requested, “What makes you are available?” After which they design for all of those form of hotel-like experiences. How do we wish you to really feel once you stroll in, and do we wish you to have the ability to take your meals to go? Oh, really they don’t. So, you possibly can’t take meals to go as a result of the entire function of going to the workplace is to socialize. Once more, it’s all about these intentional design decisions. So, with them, for the true property, they at all times on this dialog primarily based on nuanced knowledge of, Are we going to shut flooring? Are we going to lease out our flooring that aren’t getting used on form of an everyday foundation, that medium tide, that kind of on a regular basis common to different native companies?
It does pose a problem for excited about opening new workplaces as a result of they don’t know precisely how many individuals are going to make use of them. So, they do what’s the buying-clothes-for-kids metaphor the place they permit, after they open a brand new workplace, they use a variety of knowledge, however then they’re like, Okay, nicely we’re going to develop into the area. What’s the most individuals who may ever probably be right here within the Seattle workplace? I feel is one instance. However when it comes to cost-cutting, as a result of they made that one-way door resolution, they did, they made some tough choices: they closed flooring, they closed workplaces, they ended leases. However this one-way door resolution means we’re going to have to determine how you can make the distributed mannequin work and never simply attempt to clear up each individuals problem with a forcing of staff again to the workplace after we mentioned we weren’t going to do this answer.
BRIAN KENNY: I feel the case makes it fairly clear that they should discover a strategy to make the workplace a spot that’s fascinating to go to, so what can we do to make this a draw for individuals to return in? And once more, I feel if we simply take a look at Harvard Enterprise College for example, we attempt to do a number of issues to make it a spot that individuals wish to be. We have now college students right here all 12 months spherical, we create social actions to deliver workers along with one another and with college students and others. So, I feel it’s a fairly widespread downside, and so they had some inventive methods of addressing that.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: Yeah. And I feel that is one thing that’s essential: it’s not that every thing that they’ve tried has labored, and they also’re continually testing and experimenting. They’d a WeWork partnership for Atlassian staff who lived far-off from a major workplace, and that fell aside as a result of there was not sufficient of a social community. So Gina talks about, sure, you must have this hotel-like/concierge-like expertise, you must ensure the retailers are working and that individuals can simply and seamlessly get onto the web and that the regulars know that they’re at all times going to have a spot to work, after which the people who find themselves in Sydney for the primary time, it looks like a five-star resort to them. So, they’ve put a crew in place for the worker expertise of the workplace.
BRIAN KENNY: So, in that scheme, staff grow to be clients, in some sense.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: 100%, and that’s how Atlassian thinks in regards to the distributed work mannequin, is that they’re centered on bettering the worker expertise of each the workplace and the distributed work atmosphere, as a result of they need staff to return and know that they’re at Atlassian after they stroll into the workplace versus some other tech firm.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah. One of many huge considerations that we hear loads in regards to the hybrid work atmosphere is that bringing new individuals into the tradition, assimilating new individuals into a company, is far more tough now. You rent any individual new, possibly they should get collectively, however they’re not going to be seeing their colleagues for an additional two months or no matter. How did Atlassian take into consideration that?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: So, the case reveals, completely, that is an ongoing problem. So, I instructed you the opening chilly name raises some challenges; that’s one of many first issues college students level to, I don’t know if I may onboard in an organization the place I don’t have to fulfill essentially my colleagues on day one in individual, that simply looks like I’m flying blind a bit. And even within the case, staff that I interviewed famous that with out workplace casual contact factors, it took longer for brand new crew members to really feel related.
So, they’ve taken, once more, a design perspective; they’re testing and iterating. They did structured interventions, so necessary intentional crew gathering, attendance for brand new hires, page-led assembly coaching that teaches communication norms. And I feel probably the most attention-grabbing improvements on the onboarding entrance that occurred simply as I used to be about to log off on the case was they created an AI agent that staff may ask foolish inquiries to. So, they simply made it in a day, the HR crew vibe coded it, and it will be like, “Are you able to inform me how you can entry my advantages?” The issues that you just may secretly faucet somebody on the shoulder, all this tacit studying, all this institutional information that you’d really feel too shy to ask your supervisor about, it’s one among their most used AI instruments at Atlassian. I feel it was virtually over 70% of staff had used it in order that they may ask questions on, “How do I reimburse my do business from home setup? How do I journey to the closest workplace? What’s going to occur after I get there?” In order that was one piece of it. And one other piece of it was a really structured coaching program. So, a part of what you need a new worker to really feel is a few accountability.
BRIAN KENNY: In fact.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: So the CEO comes on the display and asks them what their contribution to the corporate goes to be, and it lights that fireplace beneath you to, Oh, my boss goes to look at me even when we’re not in the identical workplace, kind of what your instance was, the automobile counting, however in digital. They do instances collectively on small challenge groups, and so they begin to use all of the instruments and the expertise at Atlassian from day one. In order that’s one thing they began to implement later, as a result of they did really feel like, we now have a little bit of a tradition right here, we make asynchronous Loom movies as an alternative of have conferences, the place you place emoticons onto your boss’s video. They mentioned that the senior executives who got here into the corporate struggled essentially the most.
BRIAN KENNY: I’m not stunned.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: One individual mentioned, “I really feel like an toddler right here,” some one who had twenty years of expertise in an analogous firm simply mentioned, “There’s all these AIs and brokers and instruments and a Confluence web page, they make all their choices with out PowerPoints, you write down your resolution—”
BRIAN KENNY: No PowerPoint?!
ASHLEY WHILLANS: “…in a two-page Google- like doc, after which we simply touch upon that?” It was giving them a variety of anxiousness. And so, this onboarding is supposed to stroll individuals by way of the ecosystem of Atlassian and what it means to work there.
BRIAN KENNY: There are literally some actually cool concepts that me, as any individual who’s been managing for a very long time… You mentioned the time period earlier than, however I don’t wish to gloss over it, the page-led assembly. Are you able to simply describe what that’s? As a result of I really suppose I want to do that.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: I feel it’s my favourite work observe that will get talked about within the case. So, there’s just a few. There’s the calendar redesign, the place you ensure you’re not simply overwhelming your calendar to have conferences only for the sake of listening to your self speaking. That’s why they do asynchronous movies, making an attempt to take away conferences from the calendar and create extra centered blocks of time. After which, sure, so these page-led conferences, after I educate this case, I ask college students, “Which observe that you just examine within the Atlassian case would you actually wish to do in your subsequent job?” And page-led conferences are the one that everybody desires to do and feels terrified to do it.
So it’s that Atlassian’s paperwork—they’re not the one firm that does this—however for each assembly, doesn’t matter what it’s about, may very well be a $100 million actual property assembly, you make a two-pager that may be learn in 5 minutes with the entire most essential data in it. Now, it might probably hyperlink to evaluation to assist your argument, however it takes… Even the case, I snicker, is form of an extended case. It might take one thing just like the Atlassian case and distill it into the three bullet factors that anybody in that assembly would want to know so as to decide. After which, what occurs on the finish of the assembly is that the choice will get recorded on that very same doc. In order that signifies that each resolution in all the group, each assembly is uploaded and might be searched by AI, so that you don’t should faucet that individual on the shoulder to determine what was mentioned in a gathering three days in the past or earlier than you joined, and it forces you to suppose so exhausting about what the important thing data is and the important thing query. That’s the place a variety of my college students get anxious. It’s a must to know what the worth is that you just’re going to contribute, and a variety of our conferences possibly don’t essentially have three bullet factors that will lead to a call that will change a product.
BRIAN KENNY: I feel if we mandated that, conferences would drop by half, as a result of it does make you suppose and put together for a gathering in a method that you just don’t should proper now.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: They usually have to have the ability to be learn.
BRIAN KENNY: Sure, yeah.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: And so, they have been even giving me feedback on my educational writing. Once more, Annie was a lawyer, and a few of their crew was in PhD land, and so they’re like, “Ashley, none of your writing would work right here.” They’re like, “Additionally, we don’t actually do emails, so are you able to simply textual content me once you wish to arrange a case interview?”
BRIAN KENNY: Oh, man. Nicely, courageous new world. One of many issues that the case focuses on is the tradition of Atlassian and the significance of transparency, and I’m questioning, how do you create and maintain transparency when individuals simply aren’t collectively all that a lot?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: They’ve an open firm no BS worth, which is one among their core organizational values that interprets into these distributed work practices. So once more, each assembly web page is accessible company-wide by default. This resolution register—even in regards to the resolution to go to distributed work—is offered, and you may take a look at it. Even failed experiments can be found, and you may search it and search for it and perceive the entire pondering and the poor pondering or the unhealthy choices that resulted in a alternative that possibly they wouldn’t have made once more if they’d the chance.
This transparency and openness will get bolstered in each observe that they have interaction in, and I feel that is the important thing right here and why I actually like Atlassian’s method is that they deal with the day by day work practices and reinforcing at each e mail, or each e mail that doesn’t occur, each doc, each work product, each dialog is tied to being clear, environment friendly, and be capable to be communicated to anybody and be learn at any time. And so, after I take into consideration how they do that transparency and openness in a distributed atmosphere, it’s as a result of every thing lives within the digital world, anybody can search all this data at any time, hook up with anybody at any time, go away a voice memo to the CEO about their latest Loom video at any time, and so the transparency is baked in to the way in which that they work.
BRIAN KENNY: That creates a complete new set of, I assume, obligations for managers too. It’s a must to keep in mind and be considerate about that and level individuals to this data. So, they do a variety of experiments. You’ve talked about that. Experimenting is how they’ve gotten so far as they’ve. At what level do they are saying, Okay, sufficient experiments, we have to really begin to scale a few of the issues that we’re doing that we all know work, as a result of their objective is to have the ability to share this and prolong it to shoppers and different individuals, proper?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: So that they have a motto that you just pay for the merchandise and the practices are free, however they’re attending to a spot the place if they need individuals to be utilizing all information staff to be utilizing their merchandise, and this is sort of a key rigidity within the case, ought to the practices actually be free and as much as the client to make use of it in the event that they wish to? And that is the place I feel Atlassian is beginning to spin its wheels, a minimum of the place we finish within the case, they begin to rent a gross sales lead. They’re beginning to consider, Nicely, if we have been going to essentially assist each professor, each workers member on the Harvard Enterprise College use Loom to do asynchronous movies or make Confluence the language of HBS, can you actually simply promote Confluence and simply hope that HBS adopts the practices? Or is that this a change administration form of technique or…
So, this is among the key factors within the case: Ought to the merchandise and the practices nonetheless stay free, ought to they nonetheless stay agnostic on how individuals use their expertise in the event that they actually wish to change and be the chief in the way forward for work dialog? This central rigidity that Dean faces, so scaling confirmed practices like ITGs and page-led conferences can create consistency and effectivity simply even pondering throughout the group. However as she herself notes within the case too, this isn’t nearly their go-to-market technique; it’s about their inner office technique. She says, “What labored six months in the past may not work in the present day.” So, the chance is calcifying practices that grow to be outdated or didn’t work for sure staff and sure consumer dealing with capabilities like gross sales. And they also’re form of doing a little bit of each. They’re formalizing profitable experiments just like the intentional crew gatherings into formal office coverage. It’s a must to do these issues now whereas sustaining the crew wherever lab that Annie runs for continued experimentation. They usually even have communities of observe the place staff can pilot new methods of working and see in the event that they’re value adapting into insurance policies or throwing away within the subsequent quarter. And I feel that’s how they give thought to these choices. There’s at all times a set of actions that grow to be coverage. These are issues now primarily based on the info tells us we now have to get groups collectively in individual. It’s an crucial.
BRIAN KENNY: Do you suppose Atlassian sees themselves because the thought chief on this area? Are they making an attempt to be often known as the people who find themselves transferring the working world on this path?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: Yeah. I feel they positively wish to be regarded as architects of the way forward for work and thought leaders and system designers. They usually actually do emphasize time and again, each individual I talked to in that case interview talked about, pondering like a designer versus an analyst. Once more, pondering excessive degree about this dialog, we frequently are excited about variety of days within the workplace, variety of badge swipes, not what do we wish the way forward for work to appear to be? They’re at all times making an attempt to do that delicate dance of wanting on the knowledge and fixing rapid challenges after which wanting up and asking ourselves, Is that this a path we wish the way forward for work to appear to be?
BRIAN KENNY: Very attention-grabbing. You’ve studied this loads. You’ve checked out how individuals use their time and the way individuals could make higher use of their time. As you concentrate on distributed work and all of the conversations and debates which might be enjoying out about it now, what do you suppose is the factor that individuals misunderstand most about distributed work?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: So, I feel there’s a few factors. All groups are principally in information work are distributed as a result of we now have globally distributed workplaces. So, I feel one false impression is the extent to which our office, even when we come to the workplace day by day, is a distributed office. I feel one other false impression or place of confusion is one thing I already talked about, that the workplace is synonymous with collaboration. These aren’t one and the identical. And this debate usually conflates that dialog. What we actually must be speaking about is how you can make collaboration higher in information work, as a result of that is like Jeff Polzer’s work, collaboration overload. We’re drowning in emails. We don’t know the place to go discover knowledge. We by no means have the data we’d like. So, we’re struggling in information work to arrange this huge quantity of data that proper now sits inside individuals who generally stumble upon one another. And so I just like the path that Atlassian is pushing this dialog: Let’s cease preventing about the place individuals ought to be working and begin preventing and desperately looking for out an answer to how we will get information work to be extra environment friendly, much less demanding, and extra productive.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah. Do you suppose AI helps in that trigger?
ASHLEY WHILLANS: Sure, AI is as useful as you give it the info by which to be useful. And so a key a part of that’s coaching individuals on these totally different AI brokers, empowering individuals to check out vibe coding. I imply, the top of HR was like, “I’ve by no means coded earlier than, however don’t inform anybody. And likewise, I vibe coded this in three days, and now it’s like the corporate’s most used app.”
BRIAN KENNY: There you go.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: However empowering groups, particularly in HR and folks capabilities which might be going to compete with product for this expertise, empower them to vibe code and to determine how you can use AI to handle their individuals techniques. However then every thing needs to be searchable and shareable as a analysis. You stroll into corporations, and not one of the knowledge units discuss to one another, and nobody is aware of the place this repository is or that one, or it will take a programmer 5 weeks to make these databases discuss to one another. And so I feel for AI to be helpful on this effectivity and office wellbeing dialog, we additionally must be excited about the system of labor and ensuring that every thing we’re doing, each resolution and e mail and chat, not in a punitive method, however in a optimistic method, resides in an area that we will all share it and entry it in order that we now have digital corridors and a digital workplace.
BRIAN KENNY: I really like that. That’s an important metaphor. That’s a good way to finish our dialog. Ashley, this has been actually attention-grabbing. Thanks for becoming a member of me on Chilly Name.
ASHLEY WHILLANS: Thanks for having me.
BRIAN KENNY: In the event you take pleasure in Chilly Name, you may like our different podcasts, Local weather Rising, Teaching Actual Leaders, IdeaCast, Managing the Way forward for Work, Skydeck, Suppose Massive, Purchase Small, and Ladies at Work. Discover them wherever you get your podcasts. If in case you have any options or simply wish to say hiya, we wish to hear from you. E-mail us at coldcall@hbs.edu. Thanks once more for becoming a member of us, I’m your host Brian Kenny, and also you’ve been listening to Chilly Name, an official podcast of Harvard Enterprise College and a part of the HBR Podcast Community.
