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Bonnie Hammer is the Vice Chairman of NBC Common, however her function within the media trade wasn’t all the time that glamorous. The truth is, she’s held nearly each title there may be within the tv trade—from manufacturing assistant to producer to president. And when you don’t know her title, you positively know her work. All through the 2000s, she led main networks like USA, Syfy, Bravo, and Leisure Tonight.
Hammer is likely one of the most influential folks in media. She joined host Alison Beard on HBR IdeaCast in 2024 to mirror on her decades-long profession, and what it takes to navigate and thrive in one of the disrupted industries—media.
ALISON BEARD: So at first of your profession, have been you in search of a job that may include a variety of change and dynamism, or was it simply one thing you had to determine to outlive within the trade?
BONNIE HAMMER: Let’s simply put it this fashion, at first of my profession, I used to be in search of something to try this gave me a paycheck. I had a ardour that I began with, which was pictures, and I figured that by some means I’d make a residing that manner. So my first jobs out of school have been working in a darkish room at a industrial pictures studio, and it led me to a photograph modifying job, that was sort of boring too. I actually labored at discovering one thing with my ardour till I tripped right into a place that led me to a job, which led me to a profession.
So I feel the primary one was giving up a dream that wasn’t main me wherever, and sort of what then turned my philosophy in life, following the alternatives, and my first alternative wasn’t precisely shining. I used to be the bottom grade manufacturing assistant on a child’s math TV present, on public broadcasting in Boston, actually following a canine across the set and cleansing up his poop. I knew it was a possibility. I used to be in a tv studio and who knew what it may result in, and I cleaned up the poop with a smile and realized from then on it was about perspective and following alternatives.
ALISON BEARD: So how did you establish these alternatives that you just knew have been going to guide you within the course that the trade was additionally going?
BONNIE HAMMER: I didn’t have a look at it in the direction of leaning me to the alternatives that may assist me develop, and I feel that is likely one of the obstacles in the best way with I feel a variety of younger folks attempting to navigate the office. What I did was comply with alternatives the place I might be taught, be taught virtually something, new expertise, easy methods to do one thing I haven’t completed earlier than, assembly new folks that I hadn’t met earlier than, with the hope that a kind of alternatives would lead me to the following step, versus seeing it as a ladder the place you climb rung by rung by rung to rise up to the highest.
I feel when you do this, particularly as of late when industries are altering so shortly, that the chance that, that job, that place and even that trade would nonetheless be there in 10 or 20 years, shouldn’t be real looking. So for me, it was taking up various things that a minimum of sounded attention-grabbing or had a brand new skillset that I may be taught, so I may broaden myself. And a part of it was typically it was the one factor out there. So do I not take it and do nothing and complain, or do I take it and simply see the place it leads me?
ALISON BEARD: And when you may see adjustments looming, whether or not it was the rise of cable or the digitization of the trade, I feel you went by means of seven mergers to turn into what’s now NBCUniversal. What did you do to determine these studying alternatives but additionally locations the place you’ll be secure? How did you attempt to keep forward of the change?
BONNIE HAMMER: Properly, I feel initially, what folks must do shouldn’t be concern change. Change goes to return. Whether or not you need it or not, whether or not you attempt to management it or not, your boat goes to be rocked, whether or not you do it or the waves do it, you’re going to get moist.
In our world, change is inevitable. So relatively than waste time fearing it and complaining about it and being a naysayer, my intestine has all the time been embrace change. As a result of you don’t have any management doing the rest. Sure, there’s all the time a second of “I can’t imagine that is occurring once more.” And as you stated, I’ve gone by means of seven company adjustments, eight completely different bosses, and by some means nonetheless navigated my manner by means of.
So the very first thing was embrace it, which means, “It’s right here, what I’ve to do is work out a manner that I can match into this new world.” Which implies determining what their tradition is, doing all of your homework, speaking to folks, are they extra artistic than financial-based? Are they extra within the backside line than an incredible hit? Do they provide good suggestions and criticism or are they quiet and simply watch you? So perceive what the tradition is and attempt to settle for that.
Then mainly attempt to determine the place the door’s going to be open, which means, what are your talent units? What have you ever completed earlier than? What do they want, and how are you going to match into their world? After which attempt to discuss to folks, get recommendation on the place and how one can match into this new tradition. The minute you turn into destructive, the naysayer, they’re not going to need you round. The minute you appear optimistic, optimistic, “I wish to be taught. That is what I’ve completed earlier than. I’d love to suit into your world. Present me how.” It empowers the brand new powers that be to take you underneath their wing and wish to provide help to develop you, and have you ever be a part of their new regime. That was my manner. It was discovering a door relatively than partitions and obstacles.
ALISON BEARD: Yeah, and I feel what’s so spectacular is that you just’ve completed that, not simply once you have been a lowly manufacturing assistant, however you’ve completed that once you have been a very senior govt, attempting to determine what a brand new regime would really feel like and work like.
BONNIE HAMMER: Sure, it occurs at each degree, and in some methods it’s simpler once you’re youthful as a result of you’ll be able to slot in a variety of new areas, however after getting a method of administration and you might be in a way more senior place, embracing it may be harder since you’ve developed your personal fashion. And can that fashion match the brand new regime? 9 out of 10 instances, it could possibly, and it’ll. And I sort of joke that the explanation I could be in a room is as a result of I’ve been in so many rooms that I’ve found out a manner the place the door is, the place a window is, the place a crack is, to determine a manner to slot in and be a part of that new tradition.
It doesn’t imply I’m not going to have a voice or I’m going to surrender my voice, or not be genuine to me or my fashion of administration. It’s simply being open to determine how my fashion can combine with the brand new fashion, the brand new tone. I’ve nonetheless all the time remained Bonnie. I’ve nonetheless led my group, my folks in the identical manner, however I had to determine easy methods to translate their values, their backside line, their definition of success to all of my folks so we may nonetheless have enjoyable and do what we do, however have it translate in a manner that they perceive and get it.
ALISON BEARD: Was there ever a time, in the course of the trade ups and downs and the mergers, once you have been actually apprehensive concerning the future? And if that’s the case, how did you keep targeted?
BONNIE HAMMER: You all the time fear concerning the future. Individuals hold saying what’s occurring now within the enterprise is the most important change that’s ever occurred. AI goes to return in, corporations are restructuring, getting smaller and smaller. The reality is that’s occurred from the get go. What occurred with cable over the a long time, that I used to be fortunate sufficient to be in it, we mainly out did broadcast when it comes to income as a result of we had two sources of income coming in, so we have been making much more cash than broadcast was making.
Then all people stated, Peacock or streamers at massive, have been going to fully blow away linear TV. Guess what? We’re all going to nonetheless survive it, however in a different way. And since I’ve been round so lengthy, every decade, one thing else was certainly going to kill one thing else. There’ll all the time be one thing new, all the time be one thing threatening it. See what it’s, study it, perceive it, after which attempt to determine how the 2 can co survive whilst you’re navigating your technique to see the place it actually finally ends up.
ALISON BEARD: Yeah. So I do wish to speak about NBC’s entrance to streaming with Peacock. It’s all the time tough with new know-how. You don’t wish to enter if it’s not going to pan out. You don’t wish to be too early, however then you definately additionally don’t wish to be too late. NBCUniversal did begin a bit behind. So how did you strategy that problem as the one who was tasked with creating Peacock?
BONNIE HAMMER: Properly, in hindsight, Steve Burke, Brian Roberts have been proper to attend. Nevertheless, for the 5 years main as much as once we began, I and several other different senior folks, throughout the NBC household, have been pushing them to leap into streaming. “We’re late, we’re late, we’ve to do it. Look what’s occurring on the earth.” They usually sort of listened, however not likely, till in the future Steve stated, “Okay, we’re going to do that, and I need you to guide the fees to a minimum of launch it.” And my response to him, aside from me being one in every of a number of who have been pushing it was, “Why me?” I’m so not a technological buff. I’m a content material creator and sure, I’m a frontrunner, however I used to be very sincere saying, “This isn’t my world.” However I feel the honesty was what led him to place me within the place.
As a result of he knew I knew easy methods to lead, he knew I knew content material, and he additionally knew that I didn’t must be the neatest one within the room, that I’ll encompass myself with individuals who knew much more than I did, and allow them to educate me and assist me develop a group that may launch it.
ALISON BEARD: Speak me by means of your course of for making essential selections, whether or not it goes again to inexperienced lighting a present or hiring a key producer or making your personal profession transfer, like saying, “Certain, I’ll tackle launching the streaming channel.” How do you weigh the professionals and cons or think about data versus intuition?
BONNIE HAMMER: This has grown over time, and the simplest manner for me to explain it’s the ABCs all the best way to G, of intestine. I’ll begin with A. Analyze. What are you attempting to do, the place are you attempting to get to, whether or not it’s a present or a profession determination or the rest. And actually take the time to determine what it’s you need and why. B is brainstorming, which is my favourite factor as a result of it’s collaborative. Get a bunch of individuals collectively and speak about it. What we all the time did with each single present earlier than we greenlit it, I had each one in every of my senior folks, even individuals who had nothing to do with artistic, sit in a room, learn the script earlier than they got here in, and we might brainstorm the nice, the unhealthy, what we preferred, what we didn’t like, et cetera, to simply see the place individuals are popping out.
Then C, evaluate. What are you attempting to do versus what has occurred earlier than, both in your life or different exhibits that have been on different networks or different streamers earlier than? Did it work? Why did it work? If it didn’t work, why did it fail? D, which I really like as nicely, discover a satan’s advocate. It’s what most individuals don’t do, as a result of most individuals don’t wish to hear destructive stuff. Discover any individual who’s going to select aside no matter you might be selecting to do, simply to see the place the holes are. It’s not to allow them to discuss you out of it, it’s so a minimum of they’re going to provide you a aspect of no matter you’re deciding which may not be in your language at that time or won’t be in your thoughts. E, it’s simply the hassle that you just put into what it’s and discovering the specialists which might be in that world.
So what the pink lights, inexperienced lights are in that call. Somebody who already has a job, somebody who’s already produced a present, any individual who’s an skilled in directing visible results that you just haven’t completed.
F, easy, the information. You really must know the information of what you’re doing, in comparison with what has come earlier than. After which G is intestine. Belief your intestine, particularly once you’ve been in that world earlier than, completed what you’ve completed earlier than. So for me it’s utilizing the 2 brains, the mind in your head and the mind in your abdomen. And when collectively, you is probably not assured success, however you’re positively going to restrict failure.
ALISON BEARD: So it seems like additionally that intestine intuition, even when you’re working in a totally new atmosphere, there are elements of your expertise in numerous realms that can inform it in a very optimistic manner.
BONNIE HAMMER: Completely. I’ve one – as soon as we have been attempting to do a present known as Political Animals, which all people on the group was completely optimistic was going to be large success. It had Sigourney Weaver and Ellen Burstyn. We had an incredible producer, we had an incredible director. We did not one of the ABCs of intestine checking aside from test our intestine. Once we received the scores, we have been completely shocked as a result of it did worse than another present we had ever, ever completed earlier than.
And the very first thing I needed to do, I owned the failure. Wrote a word to my boss, earlier than the scores have been public, stated, “We’re devastated. We do not know how or why this occurred. We’re going to determine what went fallacious, however I simply wish to let earlier than the scores are available in formally, we blew it, simply completely blew it.”
The opposite occasion was a present the place all of us knew, my complete group, the script didn’t match USA Community. It was just a little too darkish, actor wasn’t actually identified, however he was attention-grabbing and quirky. Nothing about it match what we wished to do in USA, however the director, author, we thought, was distinctive. The character concerned was fabulous.
And we made the choice consciously that nothing about this could match on USA, however it’s too good for another community to get it. And we determined we’re keen to take a calculated threat and do that. And what occurred was, that is Mr. Robotic, which did extremely nicely, was an enormous success for USA. The aware calculated threat labored out. And we have been keen to fail if we needed to as a result of we knew all of the ABCs, all through intestine, of constructing that call and we have been keen to fail. There have been no surprises there.
ALISON BEARD: And so the distinction with Political Animals is that you just didn’t do A by means of F, you simply did G.
BONNIE HAMMER: Right.
ALISON BEARD: You might be this one that’s risen to the very prime of your trade, and that meant that you just went from managing small groups to large ones, like greater than 2000 folks. So how did you determine that transition? You appear to be you rely very a lot on interpersonal connection, collaboration, group tradition. How do you keep all of that as your span of energy will increase, and make all of these folks, who you’re managing, really feel as comfy as you might be in managing change in a very tough dynamic trade?
BONNIE HAMMER: Properly, first you need to keep the values you had once you have been main a smaller group, which means collaboration, caring, empathy, making a excessive bar for achievement, however having actually good communication in that course of. So it’s figuring out what your model or your tradition is for managing your group, then instructing that to all of your direct reviews to allow them to push it down. There needs to be consistency and an understanding. Among the methods I helped do this – as soon as I received into bigger groups and a number of channels that I used to be managing, I might do what I known as Breakfast with Bonnie. And people breakfasts could be as soon as a month with most likely about 20 in every breakfast, from govt assistants to administrators. And we might sit in a room, I might do a really enjoyable, simple open, I might speak about in the mean time what was occurring, what was succeeding, what was not succeeding inside our personal world.
After which I might open it as much as questions, and I might actually say to folks, “This room is Vegas. No matter occurs right here stays right here. Nothing goes to go as much as your direct boss or as much as anyone greater in my room. I want to know what’s working and what’s not working in our division. And I do know you guys are fact tellers, so inform me what’s occurring, what’s working, what’s not. What messages are you getting? Do you’re feeling comfy? Do you’re feeling such as you’re rising?” I wished to listen to the reality. And finally any individual would increase their hand and open up and inform me the reality of an issue that existed or an perspective, or one thing that wasn’t occurring that ought to occur. And I might study what’s occurring on the extra junior ranges so I may repair it, or a minimum of I’d pay attention to it.
As a result of it wasn’t effervescent as much as my degree, I didn’t learn about it. And I received to know an entire lot of individuals on the decrease ranges. And since I went by means of each single degree attending to the place I’m, I appreciated every part that different folks do on the decrease ranges that most individuals don’t get are so essential to the product. So I did that for years and it labored extremely nicely. So you need to articulate your values, folks have to know your tradition, and you need to push these values down, all the best way to the entry-level folks as nicely. Once you do this, folks keep inside that tradition, and wish to keep and develop inside your world for a very long time.
ALISON BEARD: So it sounds such as you’re keen to rent individuals who have completely different management types than you. What particularly do you search for to be sure that they’re going to be the individuals who strategy challenges the best way you do?
BONNIE HAMMER: Properly, I feel typically folks rent folks due to skillset, or within the early phases, due to levels or the college they went to. Sure, skillset is essential, fundamental smarts, intelligence, however for me it’s a top quality of an individual. After they are available in, are they keen to hear or are they simply going to babble about themselves? Do they provide different folks credit score within the dialog you could have with them or do they take credit score for themselves? I search for tone. I search for any individual who has some grace. I search for somebody who I feel could be trusted as a group member who’s keen to collaborate. So listening relatively than speaking, asking good questions that exhibits they wish to be taught, all for me go manner above any sort of diploma or skillset expertise.
ALISON BEARD: Yeah. And when you could have group members that you just don’t see embracing change in the best way you need them to, how do you give them vital suggestions? What’s the important thing to doing that nicely?
BONNIE HAMMER: Properly, I feel initially, you need to give that suggestions. And I feel oftentimes, within the office, folks watch, they decide, however don’t essentially have actual conversations with people who work with and for them. They usually could look ahead to the tip of 12 months evaluate, however I don’t assume that’s sufficient. You need to have the robust conversations with individuals who you assume have the chance to develop. And even these you won’t assume can develop, however it’s best to give them one other attempt to see, to allow them to know what’s occurring or not occurring. Ask them how are they doing? How do you assume you’re doing right here and why? After which inform them, “Properly me inform you how I see it, and I simply wish to provide help to be taught and provide help to develop.” I don’t imagine folks can develop with no little robust love and being advised the reality, but it surely ought to are available in a useful, helpful, positively tonal manner.
ALISON BEARD: I really feel like one actual wrestle for managers now could be working with people who find themselves very, superb at what they at the moment do, however must be taught one thing new. For instance, it’s me, I’m a wonderful editor, I’m an incredible podcast host, hopefully, and I must be taught GenAI. I must be taught these new applied sciences, but it surely’s simple for me to relaxation on my laurels. So how do you push these people who find themselves nice performers, to do extra and problem themselves?
BONNIE HAMMER: Properly, initially, I all the time search for these individuals who will increase their palms and say, “I wish to be taught. I don’t know something about AI but, and what’s the easiest way to do it?” It begins with a dialog that claims, “You’re doing amazingly nicely. All the things I ask you to do, inside your skillset, your activity, your title, is nice, however the world is altering. And I feel so that you can develop, and I feel so that you can have a runway inside this world, this firm, this skillset, you’ve received to start out reaching just a little out of your consolation zone. And right here’s a number of methods through which you may do it.
It’s mainly approaching that particular person in a manner that, once more, doesn’t sound like, “Oh my God, I’m going to lose my job if I don’t be taught this skillset,” however in a manner that’s providing them the chance. And in the event that they leap at it, fabulous. In the event that they don’t, you’ll be able to nonetheless give them just a little nudge, but when they actually don’t take you up on it, then as a frontrunner, as a boss, you need to understand what their limitation is.
ALISON BEARD: I simply wish to say for the report, I attended a big language mannequin lunch and be taught this week, and I additionally went to a convention the place I discovered about all of those AI instruments. So I’m attempting. What recommendation do you give younger individuals who need careers in media or another actually fast-changing trade immediately?
BONNIE HAMMER: My recommendation is to know that you need to work at your price to get what you need. That with a purpose to stand out, you need to be seen, which suggests coming in early, elevating your palms for alternatives, staying late, not seeing something beneath you, significantly within the first few years throughout these studying years –
ALISON BEARD: Yeah. A reminder that Bonnie Hammer picked up canine poo in her first job.
BONNIE HAMMER: Yeah. Sure. Did I complain to my family and friends? After all I did, however after I confirmed up on the set, I did it with a smile, and something they requested me, to expire for 3 lattes, I did it figuring out that if I used to be optimistic, if I used to be optimistic, they might wish to have me round. And if you’re optimistic, individuals are going to need you proceed to have you ever round. Then you need to carry out. In case you’re requested to do one thing, do it. Do your homework, do it nicely. In case you’re going to overlook a deadline, don’t BS about it. Principally say, “I’m not going to have it in on time. That is the explanation. I’ll positively have it for you by,” give a date.
Individuals must belief you, after which you need to grasp the talent set, no matter it’s. Then increase your hand to be taught as a lot as you’ll be able to for alternatives outdoors of your talent set, even when you’re not going to get additional pay for it, as a result of that too will present folks you could have the vitality, the eagerness, the need to be taught extra. Just remember to don’t go right into a state of affairs pretending that what you are able to do when you can’t do it. Ask questions. Be taught. Present folks what and inform them what you don’t. It’s very exhausting to win again belief, but it surely’s very simple to empower others to wish to provide help to and educate you. I feel it’s essential to stay humble, have humility, even together with confidence. You don’t want entitlement and conceitedness. That makes an enormous distinction within the center a part of your profession when it comes to the way you navigate it.
And when you get just a little bit extra senior, then it truly is the ABCs of intestine when it comes to the way you develop, and studying how… Profitable is great, however you additionally must discover ways to lose, be taught from dropping, to be able to transfer ahead and perceive all that’s, is a studying expertise. It was an impediment, but it surely’s not a cease signal. It’s not a useless finish. Use it to problem your self to discover a technique to win differently. After which finally, it’s simply embracing change. As a result of it’s going to return for you it doesn’t matter what you do. So discover ways to run in the direction of it and embrace it.
ALISON BEARD: Properly, Bonnie, that’s such nice recommendation. So many pearls of knowledge on this dialog and within the ebook. I actually recognize you approaching the present.
BONNIE HAMMER: Alison. Thanks for having me. I all the time get pleasure from speaking with you.
HANNAH BATES: That was NBC Common Vice Chairman Bonnie Hammer, in dialog with Alison Beard on HBR IdeaCast. Hammer can also be the writer of the ebook 15 Lies Girls are Instructed About Work: …and the Reality We Have to Succeed.
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This episode was produced by Mary Dooe and Me, Hannah Bates. Curt Nickisch is our editor. Music by Coma Media. Particular due to Maureen Hoch, Rob Eckhardt, Erica Truxler, Ramsey Khabbaz, Nicole Smith, Anne Bartholomew, and also you – our listener. See you subsequent week.
